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Author Topic: Dust collector: What is the scoop on Loaning/Leasing tools to the lab?  (Read 2537 times)

da3v

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I have a dust collector ( http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2002055/21196/jet-dust-collector-model-650ck.aspx ) that I am currently not using that might be a decent fit for the big CNC, especially if we build a cool vortex thingie to go between the CNC and it.


Should I bring it in?  Is there a way to temporarily detach myself from it liability-wise, but still retain the ability to reclaim it in more-or-less one piece some day in the future?

f00bard

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That would be awesome.  We agreed some time back that as long as we got approval in a meeting we could "lease" stuff from members.  That's basically the status of a few of the tools at the lab (would have to go back through minutes, Tony's drill press being one of them).  I think this rates highly enough to be considered for leasing =)

We just need to note it somewhere official so it isn't counted in our assets (for tax purposes) but is otherwise noted that we have it and it belongs to you.  So far we've just been keeping that info in meeting minutes.  Maybe the forum can replace that as the "record".

f00bard

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Here's some nice plans for a cyclonic dust collector: http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/BuildCyclone.cfm

Catastrophic

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Bill pentz is THE dust collection guru, and he's done years and years of research on the subject. If we are going to build a cyclone from scratch it should definitely be one of his designs.

Chorca

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I've actually been reading into this Phil Thein design for a small, cyclonic collector, that can be scaled to basically any size and from what people say, it works wonders.
They seem very simple to build, are very compact, and there are designs that we could cut on the CNC! Make more parts for itself!

There's a good one that just uses a normal 33-gallon trash can (rubbermaid brute style) and just sits on the top. We might even be able to build one that sits inside the frame of the cnc and uses a separately mounted blower to exhaust fine dust outside via the vent that will be installed.

Main site, most of the goodies are in the forum:
http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm

Videos of them in action. Ours should for sure have a plexi viewing window.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QCAOwSqrko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVCqHsa_zq4

Pitbull

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I have first hand experience with the Thien separator. Works perfect if built right. Did a full write up of it here.

http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=429.0

Swapping out for plexi  would be easy....but the instructions should give you a good starting point if you all go this route.


-Jason

digitalman2112

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Jason, you have some serious skills - I learned 4 or 5 new techniques just from reading your build thread. Thanks for sharing!  :)

f00bard

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Wow, awesome build thread!  What was your rationale for using plywood instead of acrylic for the curved wall?

Pitbull

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Well to be honest, this was one of two that I know of designs like this at the time this was made that had a high CFM flow capability. I had lexan on hand but, did not want to use it for this....plus I had some people wanting to know how to make curved forms. So this seemed like a good way to show how that is done with out using bending ply.

The wood is also much more robust and quieter. However using acrylic is a far faster build and cooler looking for sure. It will work just as well.


ThantiK

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Holy poop.  I seriously wish I had the forethought to be able to document like this.  I wish project glass were cheap enough that I could just record hacking adventures as I was working on them and then split it into a build log afterwards.

f00bard

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Pitbull, any thoughts on the Thein separator vs. Bill Pentz's design?  In reading over Bill Pentz's site, I'm worried that the dust collector we have on loan won't be enough to ensure we're keeping our members safe.  We were already working towards venting some other tools outside (namely the laser cutter, which makes some nasty smells when cutting acrylic), but maybe we need to be venting our dust collector too (post filter, of course).

Pitbull

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I have been around this equipment for a while and have seen commercial cyclones. All of these systems have some bypass flow...usually the harmful stuff that does not have weight enough to drop from the centrifugal force. This is where the filter comes into play.


Wether it be a Tophat design or a cyclone...neither will make you safer per se...they will be easier to dump waste, but the best reason to use one is it keeps the machine operating at maximum CFM by not allowing debris to clog the filter.

The harmful stuff is mostly the dust you can not see that will wreak havoc on you...sanding dust or any carcinogenic stuff like MDF...TERRIBLE!! Also resins, glues, and species of woods can be detrimental to breathe. Import sheet goods are rarely screened for this stuff...you gamble when you breath it.


 A 4" line can flow a max of 400cfm a 6" line can flow almost double that. Keep this in mind when choosing a dust collecter. All will claim much higher cfm ratings, they need to because they need to over come static pressure....and twist, turn, length of duct run, or smoothness of duct material will hinder this. For a machine like a CNC, its cut area is easily contained with a dust boot....so 400cfm is perfectly adequate compared to a larger drum/wide belt sander which could have a scavenge area of cubit feet. 400cfm would be minimal at best.

The best thing that can be added to make things safer is a low micron filter. Canister, pleated filters, have become the definitive choice for flitering down to the smallest micron. Bag use is still very common in factory settings where they have much more powerful systems, vent outdoors...or have the system isolated. The bad thing about canisters filters is that they can provide a false sense of security. They are not all created equal. Good filters cost good money. Some of the companies today are putting out system with canisters filters that allow the most harmful dust to be leached right back into th shop...its a crime, generated by profit. Anything not filtering below 1 micron is not good enough imho.

Scrubbing fumes, like the laser, is a much costlier and complex thing to do, you see thks in the welding industry. Venting outside is by far the best choice here....however...proper intake and exit cfm  will play a significant role in scrubbing effect.


But once must also consider static pressure....or how hard it can suck. Take a powerful shop vac for example, it can pull much harder than most high end dust collection systems, it just can not move as much air. It's the reason cabinet shops will use this on router tables...it works better than a dust collector for this application. It would also be a fine choice for a CNC. But an aftermarket low micron filter should be used here as well.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 05:27:47 PM by Pitbull »

Pitbull

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in all my diatribe I forogt to answer the question. The separator is the best choice because it cost little to make and has proven to be equally effective.

-Jason